Editor’s Note: This discussion and comment chain below is now closed. We republished the story below in San Diego Jewish World because we thought it would be of interest to our readers — and for no other reason. The article was written by a writer for the McClatchy News Service. You can be assured that in no way, shape, or form was this Jewish publication trying–or even desiring– to take a position on proper Catholic doctrine. — Editor
WASHINGTON — Tim Kaine personally opposes the death penalty, the moral stand of a staunch Roman Catholic who regularly attends Mass and whose church believes executions to be wrong. Yet as governor of Virginia, the Democratic vice presidential nominee allowed the execution of 11 men. The death penalty is part of a political tightrope Kaine has…
101 thoughts on “Kaine is a faithful Catholic, but opposes some church edicts”
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The Roman Catholic Church is NOT against executions. Do not lie in your article and say it is. One may be against it, but the Church is not.
Elected Official in their oath of office pledge to respect the U.S. Constitution and perhaps their State Constitution and the laws which impact their duties. They do not pledge to worship a religious leader or a particular religion.
Why are there so many here posting that elected officials should not follow the U.S. Constitution? That is traitorous!!!
I have been sworn in and follow the law here in New Mexico. That does not stop me from supporting the COS if I choose to. But I can not and will not violate the U.S. or N.M. Constitution or NM Statutes.
Seems like there are a lot of religious nuts on this website. We elect a President and get a VP as part of the package but we do not elect religions. A voter may consider the religion of the candidate. But if the candidate wins and violates the law to be consistent with their religion we either remove them from office or put them in jail.
It is not required to run for office. So if you run you agree to Pledge Allegiance to the U.S. not the Pope or Allah or the Chief Rabbi or even your own conscience.
Most people can figure out how to manage any conflicts. Most religions authorize people to split their loyalty.
Not just “Catholics” but all Christians are bound by the commandment “though shall not kill.”
So you are wrong, the church is absolutely is against executions.
No other way to interpert it without lying to yourself.
Its a McClatchy article. This is the norm.
1. HEADLINE: “Kaine is a faithful Catholic” The Headline is a LIE.
2. Catholic is not a faith, it is a religion.
Faith? Religion? Difference?
There is no doctrinal prohibition on supporting the death penalty in Catholicism. If you are going to write about a religion, have enough respect for it to get the details right!
There most certainly is. Though shall not kill.
Pretty simple to understand.
Life is is to be cherished from conception to natural death.
The Catholic church has long held that Capital punishment is permissible. This from Wikipedia but with a effort you can find numerous articles on the Church’s stance.
The teaching of the Catholic Church categorizes capital punishment as a form of “lawful slaying”, a view defended by theological authorities such as Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.
The Church’s teaching is that punishments, including the death penalty, may be levied for four reasons:[2]
Rehabilitation – The sentence of death can and sometimes does move the condemned person to repentance and conversion.The death penalty may be a way of achieving the criminal’s reconciliation with God.
Defense against the criminal – Capital punishment is an effective way of preventing the wrongdoer from committing future crimes and protecting society from him.
Deterrence – Executions may create a sense of horror that would prevent others from being tempted to commit similar crimes.
Retribution – Guilt calls for punishment. The graver the offense, the more severe the punishment ought to be. In Holy Scripture death is regarded as the appropriate punishment for serious transgressions. Thomas Aquinas held that sin calls for the deprivation of some good, such as, in serious cases, the good of temporal or even eternal life. The wrongdoer is placed in a position to expiate his evil deeds and escape punishment in the next life.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the death penalty is permissible in certain cases if the “guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined”.
Only in a world where the Pope finds Islam the equal of Christianity, is Kaine (or Pelosi) a ‘faithful Catholic.’
It would seem to me this Author is uneducated and seems to believe that government is supposed to take the place of churh and god! The author is so ignorant he seems to believe that a government forcibly taking taxes with the threat if imprisonment then redistributing that money to people whomdont work is somehow akin to charity!
NEWSFLASH… This idea is pure Satan and is factually the goal of Communism a system that replaces god with gobernment!
Another point the author needs to eductate himself on is that Illegal Aliens are not “Immigrants”. They are criminals who broke into our country! The term Alien itself was in FACT created to describe someone that was living in a nation where they were not a citizen.
Next the author needs to educate himself to FACT my Catholic Faith nor the Gospel of Jesus Christ deals in the political realm so its a bit absurd claim that anyone supporting the curtailing of a historic flood of illegal aliens from across the globe most notably China and Mexico is somehow at odds with their faith. Every nation must manage and control immigration otherwise it would cease to exist! Just ask the ancient Romans!!!
“Time Kaine is a faithful Catholic…” LIE!
Abortion is not the only issue on which he ignores Catholic teaching. As Bishop Thomas Tobin pointed out, ” Democratic VP choice, Tim Kaine, has been widely identified as a Roman Catholic. It is also reported that he publicly supports “freedom of choice” for abortion, same-sex marriage, gay adoptions, and the ordination of women as priests. All of these positions are clearly contrary to well-established Catholic teachings; all of them have been opposed by Pope Francis as well.
Senator Kaine has said, “My faith is central to everything I do.” But apparently, and unfortunately, his faith isn’t central to his public, political life.”
Roe vs Wade was based upon the lack of knowledge as to when ‘life’ begins. With high tech ultrasounds, we now know, but the cat is out of the bag. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is clear on human rights, including the unborn. To support abortion or to take an ambivalent stance makes others believe it is acceptable in the Catholic Church when it is abhorred, and those who advance that prospect are guilty of the grave sin of encouragement. He chose to be Catholic and is not a governing body of the church. Making up/picking and choosing his own beliefs is not Catholic. He needs to refresh his memory of church doctrine if he is the Catholic he says he is.
What was Connolly doing in Kaine’s bedroom? He “…noticed [the book]on Kaine’s nightstand” Bizarre.
Cain is all for the death penalty for defenseless babies in the womb. This is an abominable position, and any ‘catholic’ who holds such a view is no longer truly ‘Catholic.’ BTW, Judas was big on ‘social justice’ too.
In his Gospel, John wrote a scathing condemnation of him.
If one is baptized into the church one is a Catholic. Whether you are a practising/faithful Catholic is another matter entirely. If anything you could call Mr Cain a lapsed Catholic since the abortion issue is a non-starter for any Catholic.
Many Catholics believe you can look past a candidate’s stance on certain issues, because the candidate supports so many worthy issues. This is blatantly false , and inconsistent with Catholic moral teachings.Moral evils such as abortion or euthanasia are disqualifying issues. If a candidate supports these ” non-negotiables”,it disqualifies him/her as someone you should vote for. By voting for such a person, you become an accomplice in these intrinsically moral evils.
We know Kaine’s a “faithful Catholic” because all “faithful Catholics” advocate for abortion on demand.
Frank’s a Pope-a-dope…
“Conservative Catholic organizations have less of an issue with the death penalty, which goes against Catholic teaching(sic)”
Incorrect. The actual teaching of the Church recognizes the right of the state to impose the death penalty.
Reporters, like Alex Daugherty, who don’t do their homework, make the mistake of confusing nonbinding prudential remarks made by members of the clergy, including Pontiffs, with actual Church teaching.
“2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.” Catechism of the Catholic Church
Exactly,
The death penalty is Catholic, provided it is the ONLY reasonable way society can protect itself from the criminal. It is not OK if a technologically modern society can protect itself by securely incarcerating the criminal. In most modern societies, high security prisons are very secure. In that case the death penalty would be simply an act of revenge. And that is wrong according to the Church. Also the church does not fall for sophisms such as saying “The death penalty is right because it shows the tremendous value of the murdered victim’s life, and it can only be made right by the murderer forfeiting his life, etc., etc., etc., blah, blah, blah…..”
Not correct.
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/death-penalty-capital-punishment/catholic-campaign-to-end-the-use-of-the-death-penalty.cfm
Capital punishment goes against catholic teaching according to US catholic Bishops as well as The Holy Father.
No, Mr. Lockhart is correct; you are incorrect. The Church does NOT teach that the death penalty is intrinsically wrong.
The Church teaches that the death penalty is an appropriate and necessary punishment in some circumstances. Many bishops, as well as the Pope, consider these circumstances to rarely or never apply in modern circumstances. But these are just their personal views. They are not teachings of the Church and Catholics can feel free to disagree with them in good conscience.
Kaine is not a faithful Catholic and needs to be ex-communicated.
Abortion, contraception,sodomy and gay marriage.
Civil rights promoted above religious rights and DOGMA of the church.
You may have noticed the explosion of new ads now appearing in major newspapers across the country with dissident Catholics promoting abortion as a Catholic value. The Orlando Sentinel and Dallas Morning News are just some of the papers the ads are appearing in. Here’s an example of just one.
They are being produced and paid for by the fake Catholic group Catholics for Choice, a front organization which is about as Catholic as ISIS. It used to be called Catholics for a Free Choice when the founder‚ turncoat Catholic Frances Kissling, who was excommunicated, changed the name to Catholics for Choice. Kissling (did we say she has been excommunicated?) also founded the National Abortion Federation, which promotes abortion.
Enemies of the Church have poured millions of dollars into Catholics for Choice over the years, including the Ford Foundation and ol’ standby himself George Soros. But the really disturbing thing about the crock Catholic outfit is its ability to get Catholic women to pose for these ads declaring their support for cutting up small human beings and suctioning them out of the wombs. These women actually hold the position that their position is Catholic. Talk about a failure of catechesis somewhere back up the line.
But a failure to catechize is exactly the name of the game in the Church these days, as tens of millions of American Catholics and their political/moral leanings testify to. A number of bishops have come out and publicly condemned the abortion ads in the newspapers. Good for them. But they have fallen silent on the Catholicity, for example, of vice presidential candidate Tim Kaine.
This man is as Catholic as Frances Kissling — which is to say: He isn’t. He has not incurred excommunication like he should have, because no bishop has the guts to declare the truth about him and his anti-Catholic views, like Lincoln, Nebraska bishop Fabian Bruskewitz did about Frances Kissling.
Some deep digging on Kaine reveals that he is the perfect model of modern American Catholicism. In short, he opposes all the major moral dogmatic teachings of the Church, hides beneath the banner of social justice (which the abortion ads do), and he does all this with impunity because he knows no bishop will challenge him directly and throw the bum out.
So while there is this rush among various bishops to go after Catholics for Choice, there is deafening silence from them on Tim Kaine and his open heresy. And by contrast, more have said something publicly directly about Trump on immigration — not a dogmatic teaching — than have said about Kaine or Hillary on sodomy and child murder — which are dogmatic teachings.
Tim Kaine is an off-the-reservation, Jesuit-educated modernist Catholic who spent time visiting with the Sandinistas in Nicaragua during his younger years, soaking in liberation theology and Marxism. When he wasn’t there, he was chilling with the Commies in Honduras. Not only is he not Catholic, he doesn’t even register as American. He is a supporter of warned-over Communism — which is these days stealthily flying under the code name of socialism, or translated into Catholic-speak, “social justice.”
And the bishops let him. They let him get away with giving dozens of interviews where he claims to be a devout Catholic. He says he is a Pope Francis Catholic, which begs the question: Is he talking about the same Pope Francis who is in Rome? The same Pope Francis who has assaulted abortion “rights” and sodomite marriage as from the devil?
But see, these are the consequences of bad catechesis over the past five decades. And by bad, we also mean tolerating evil and error. When you tolerate evil, you promote it. Period.
So again, great to blast abortion and Catholics for Choice, but that is just some of the bad fruit on the contraception tree. While at the same time abortion is being rightly blasted, there is nothing said about homosexuaity, contraception, cohabitation, easy divorce and annulments. You can’t be a bigmouth and quick to the draw on one, but silent on all the rest.
Tim Kaine took a “mission trip” in 1980 to Latin America and got all wrapped up in liberation theology, which is Marxist Communism. The folks Kaine was involved with in Honduras were working to undermine the Pope and the Vatican. But still, he gets to pass himself off as a “devout Catholic.”
So while it’s good that some bishops have spoken out against the deception of the Catholics for Choice newspaper ads, until they actually start doing something at the root of the problem — like Catholic politicians who create the environment for abortion in the first place — their words ring a little hollow.
Pray they will get a backbone sometime in the next 49 days.
Well said!
Very well said Pa, thank you.
Pope Gregory VII says (Council, Roman V): “Holding to the institutions of our holy predecessors, we, by our apostolic authority, absolve from their oath those who through loyalty or through the sacred bond of an oath owe allegiance to excommunicated persons: and we absolutely forbid them to continue their allegiance to such persons, until these shall have made amends.” Now APOSTATES from the faith, like heretics, ARE excommunicated, according to the Decretal [*Extra, De Haereticis, cap. Ad abolendam]. Therefore Princes should NOT BE obeyed when THEY HAVE apostatized from the faith.
St. Thomas Aquinas
How can any sentient adult compare most abortions with capital punishments?
Capital punishment involves deliberate and serious crimes against humanity – mostly taking of another human life. The verdict is handed down by a jury of one’s peers after a trial where all the available evidence is presented, challenged and duly considered. The verdict is automatically followed by some 20 years of appeals AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE to make sure the convict’s due process rights are fulfilled, before they are HUMANELY and PAINLESSLY put to death.
On the other hand, abortion is the wanton execution of the weakest and most innocent and helpless human beings without due process, mostly for someone’s convenience. The procedures are the most hideous, barbaric and medieval processes imaginable under the facile pretense that it is not a fellow-American that is being executed and the “thing” feels no pain, even though the “thing” has all the features of a human being including the DNA since the moment of conception.
Tim Kaine is a clown not a Catholic as is Pope Francis. Neither is fit to be in positions of power.
Kaine is an atheist and isla,,c pawn. Get with it!
“Like many religious Democrats, Kaine acknowledges his personal opposition but says the state should not restrict a woman’s right to choose.”
HOW GUTLESS ans morally BANKRUPT Tim Kaine is. It´s like someone in Nazi Germany personally opposed to discriminating against Jews but not willing to restrict non Jews from doing it.
Regarding the bogus misstatement that Gerry Connolly made that Pope Francis had “thrown the doors wide open” to allow Catholic politicians such as Kaine to choose their own approaches to complicated policy issues. I will quote Pope Francis regarding the Zika crisis and the issue of killing a pre-born child: “Taking one life to save another, that’s what the Mafia does. It’s a crime. It’s an absolute evil.”
So Tim Kaine stick your “personally opposed” phrase up your crack. You are NOT a practicing Catholic you are a practicing POLITICIAN.
The death penalty does not go against Catholic teaching. “It is clear that, for the [purposes of punishment] to be achieved,the nature and extent of the punishment must be carefully evaluated and decided upon, and [the state] ought not go to the extreme of executing the offender except in cases of absolute necessity: in other words, when it would not be possible otherwise to defend society. Today however, as a result of steady improvements in the organization of the penal system, such cases are very rare, if not practically non-existent.” (Pope John Paul II, Evangelium Vitae 56, emphasis in the original.) So over all the death penalty is done in the U.S.but it’s very rare.
The Catholic Church categorically does not condemn capital punishment. The Vatican website hosts a copy of the Catholic Catechism, which states in section 2267, “Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty.” See http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a5.htm
In my day you couldn’t be half a sinner and half a good guy and make it. I guess God lowers the standards for Demoncrats.
To say Kaine is anything like Bonhoeffer is a comment by someone who hasn’t read Bonhoeffer. Bonhoeffer was a Bible scholar which informed his political activities…leading to martyrdom. Kaine knows little about the Bible and pays little attention to it…leading to the babies who are killed. The Demoncrats are trading a clown for a weasel in that slot this election.
Killing 40 million innocent lives is probably a bigger deal than executing the a handful of guilty murderers, don’t you think?
Vatican is fulfillment of Revelation 17&18
Faithful Catholics cannot support abortion which is viewed as murder. Its not simply a church edict. Its one of the Ten Commandments
The Catholic Church is not, and cannot, be against the death penalty. It is simply the personal opinion, prudential judgement, of recent popes that capital punishment should not be used. It is part of Sacred Scripture and Catholic Sacred Tradition that the death penalty is justly applied by the state to punish those guilty of heinous crimes. This is part of Catholic Dogmatic Teaching that cannot be changed by any pope. It is not within any pope’s authority to change this.
http://www.onepeterfive.com/getting-it-wrong-about-the-death-penalty/
Kaine is in no way a ‘faithful Catholic’.
In 2010, in one of his last acts as governor, Timothy M. Kaine (D) agreed to allow convicted double murderer Jens Soering to transfer to a prison in Germany, where he would have been eligible for parole after two years. This is despite the fact that Soering confessed to the murders. It’s no coincidence that Soering is the son of a German diplomat.
Kain’s reasoning was that the Virgina taxpayers shouldn’t have to pay for Soering’s incarceration. I think most voters would agree that the cost of incarcerating a murderer is money well spent.
If Tim Kaine is such a staunch Catholic why is he pro abortion?
No, he is not a faithful Catholic. Faithful Catholics abhor abortion.
He invaded Honduras with the Sandinistas. A Commie through and through. Red diaper baby.
He was looking for Che, the Holy Grail of Communism, who had been dead a decade, but they wouldn’t believe it.
If there exists a Manchurian Candidate, it’s him. What do YOU know about him?
Hillary is a garden variety crook. This guy is a Commie.
So’s that screwy Pope.
Kaine a Catholic? – hah, in name only. He makes me cry by pretending to be one. He gives scandal. Why doesn’t he just claim his true religion of secular humanism and get on with his life?
Right on, AI.
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You are not a “practicing” Catholic if you only follow “some” of the Catholic Church teachings while ignoring others. You can’t pick and choose which rules you which to follow.
Abortion is the murdering of an innocent life that cannot defend themselves. You can play all the word games you want but we will all stand before God when we leave this life and face the consequences of our words and actions.
Kaine appears to be perfectly consistent with Catholic teaching. The State should fix the beam in its own eye rather than making a cinder in a citizen’s eye illegal. It’s enough that it is immoral, but to incarcerate someone for transgressions is not very forgiving. Remember the parable of the Catholic cop and the Catholic housewife. The housewife complained to the cop, “My husband beat me.” The cop replied, “Well than you should forgive him, and if he does it again, turn the other cheek.”
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Let’s be honest. You can say anything, believe anything, kill anyone and be a good Catholic, as long as you pay your tithe. Look how many babies have been aborted by Democrat politicians. The Catholic church says it is against abortion, but they slap the hand of any priest who thinks to refuse communion to them. Why? Because Catholicism is all about political power. Riding the back of that beast! Harlotry knows no boundaries.
As a Christian and a woman, I understand the view that a woman’s choice of abortion should not be a state issue. Where I draw the line: when the so called pro-choice position is distorted by politicians to mean 1) there is no issue with all taxpayers being coerced into paying for abortions, regardless of their conscience, and 2)there should be no restrictions on the choice to abort. This is what most pro-choice politicians mean by pro-choice, but less than 15% hold this radical a position. http://dailysignal.com/2016/08/25/extreme-position-of-pro-choice-politicians-contradicts-american-consensus?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=thf-tw
A quote from the article:
“Despite the American consensus on this issue, more and more extreme positions are being proposed by pro-abortion politicians.
Some are pledging to repeal the Hyde Amendment, which bans tax dollars from being used to pay for abortions—contrary to Americans’ view that tax dollars should not be used this way.
Nearly two in three Americans would prohibit the use of tax dollars for abortion (62 percent). This includes more than four in 10 Democrats (44 percent), more than six in 10 independents (61 percent), and more than eight in 10 Republicans (84 percent).
Those who identify as pro-choice are split too, with *45 percent saying tax dollars should not be used for abortion*.” Frankly, if only 55% think pro-life people should be coerced into paying for something against their conscience, they are not as unified on the abortion issue as the pundits like to think.
I believe we can come to a reasonable compromise, if the politicians could get out of the way. It might work like this: We will stop funding unjust war overseas, (for the principled progressive), and we will also stop funding abortions. (for the conservative with a conscience) I would prefer we simply limit the power of government to affect our lives to the Constitutional limits we once honored, but that would take the equivalent of a miracle.
This Pope really needs to resign. Why the heck is commenting on politics?
The whole idea of being a Catholic is to hew to the official doctrine espoused by the Pope. An appeal to conscience or to independence of thought makes you a Protestant.
No, the appeal to conscience is quentissentially Catholic! The qualifier is that the conscience must be formed in light of the truth and that the person must have the courage, under pain of sin, to act according to that well-formed conscience. Further one must act out of a compromised or doubtful conscience, and where that is present, one should proceed to become better informed, not simply surrender to party loyalties as seems to be the case here (both dems and reps) The heterodoxy of Proteatantism, formed in the subjectivism of the Renaissance and of developing modern philosophy and the liberal theology (don’t take “liberal” to mean the political labels of our day) is what has run aground, unable to lead the conscience out of the morass of competing goods and relative evils and the weak discernment between them, relying on the primacy of human experience. No. “Conscience” talk is a fundamentally a Catholic thing. The devolution of morality and virtue is what is Protestant.
“Faithful catholic?” That is like saying that Charles Manson is a “faithful American” because he only opposed a few laws.
Oddly, most democrats would not find anything out of place there.
What if someone in Germany around 1939 said they were personally opposed to informing the SS where Jewish people were hiding, but didn’t want to restrict the freedom of others to choose to do that, what would you think of that line of argument? Would you consider that person one of integrity of their beliefs? Is it merely a situation of choice, when that choice involves the life of another human being? I am thankful that there were people of courage and integrity in Germany that not only hide the information on where Jewish people were hiding, but even risked their own lives to help them escape. Tim Kaine is not a man of integrity and is not a Faithful Catholic, but is a Judas Catholic.
And what if he did inform to the SS, because that was the law.
I am not voting for him but maintaining a separation of Church and State to me shows that he has good judgement.
The Pope needs to stay out of U.S. Politics and focus on his job. With population declining in developing nations it is clear the Catholic Church is failing the human race. Their realm is the Church not the ballot box.
CATHOLICISM IS ALL OR NOTHING. IT IS NOT A BUFFET. YOU DON’T GET TO PICK AND CHOOSE. IF YOU REJECT ONE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THEN YOU REJECT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH PLAIN AND SIMPLE, AND YOU HAVE PLENTY OF OTHER CHURCHES TO CHOOSE FROM — YOU KNOW, THE ONES THAT TRACE THEIR ORIGINS TO MARTIN LUTHER AND NOT TO CHRIST.
PEOPLE LIKE KAINE AND BIDEN NEED TO STOP THEIR LYING HYPOCRISY AND FIND A DIFFERENT RELIGION.
George Soros hand picked Tim Kaine as Hillary’s running mate. In exchange for 10s of millions in campaign contributions, Hillary let Soros pick her running mate. You can be sure Clinton will be dead or comatose a few months after she’s elected and we’ll get our second communist preident…… even Soros knows she can’t be trusted.
Again the Church is NOT AGAINST execution. Catechism of the Catholic Church #2266
But, he advocates killing children.
Lets face it. Kaine is a communist traitor. Do tell, what’s the difference between Kaine going to Nicaragua to support the Sandinista communists in their violent overthrow versus someone who goes to Syria to support ISIS? Kaine’s ideology is socialism. Period. He worships the globalist socialist government cult god. That is not, nor has ever been, Catholicism. Kaine’s version of Catholicism reminds me that the ChiComs have their own government sanctioned version of the Holy Bible and it is nothing like King James.
Dear Pope
In 2016, it could not be more clear that voting for the leftist Democrat party is a vote to destroy the free practice of religion.
Separation of Church and State is not in the Constitution; Freedom of Religion is. In fact, freedom of religion is synonymous with the rights of free speech, free press, peaceably assembly, and the right to petition the government of our grievances.
However, the political left would have you believe that religion is somehow a threat to the rights of citizens and free government. How could that be? Is the expression of religious values somehow different than any other form of speech? In fact, just the opposite is true as government has proven itself to be a threat to the free practice of religion. Just ask the Little Sisters of the Poor.
Unfortunately, government is not completely to blame. In the face of this secular onslaught, many churches and congregations have chosen to remain silent, even when the attackers have been politicians of the same faith. Apparently the Church has chosen to compromise its values lest they lose the benefits provided by the State. That doesn’t sound like separation to me.
Our Constitution defines what the federal government may do, and specifically prohibits it from exceeding these limits via the 9th and 10th amendments. Clearly that has been violated. The Church has an obligation to remain true to its core values. If it doesn’t have the courage to speak openly about these values in the political arena then what is its purpose? Many people seem to be asking themselves that very question.
When I first heard quotes from the Pope I told my husband “we have an Obama Pope”. His very Socialistic leanings stick out like a sore thumb. I have yet to change my opinion. Kaine, Pelosi and Biden all are rabidly pro-abortion, and it is unbelievable that this Pope keeps his mouth shut when he talks about our supposed Catholic politicians. How can he say Kaine is a good Catholic who disagrees with some of the Churches edicts? All three of our Pols should be kicked out of the Church for their sick view of the execution of the most vulnerable among us. Execution of criminals that do vile, sick and degragind crimes should be OK with the Church, after all, those people get to go to God, well prepared. In the rare cases those are innocent, how does the Pope square the millions of unborn murdered to the few cases, while tragic, of innocents who die at the hands of Lady Justice ?
I think Kaine has some real conflicting views between his religion and politics. It’s clear he is not himself following the true Catholic teachings in politics. I would have no problem with this except that he uses his Catholic religion as a positive for his campaign. But I think the church should push back as some in the church hierarchy have. Will be interesting because Pence seems more in tune with his religion and politics. Which he may use against Kaine and rightly so.
He also personally opposes abortion, for example, but supports the right of women to choose to have one.”
Then he’s not a Catholic! There is no “part time” Christian. Besides,why are Jews telling us about a Catholic in the first place? What does a Jew know about being a Christian?
A pseudo-Catholic. He probably takes the sacrament. God knows his heart.
Kaine is well named.
He is not a Catholic.
He is a hypocrite.
Like all Democrats, Kaine is a hypocrite.
The Catholic Church doctrine cannot teach the elimination of the death penalty; only liberal popes are.
Kaine is a faithful Catholic??? He actually believes nothing remotely a Judaeo-Christian edict. But I’m not surprised, all the signs are there, bears are doing-it in my backyard and the Pope obviously ain’t Catholic anymore.
Liberals and progressives are always on conservatives as hypocrits because they believe abortion is murder while at the same time support the death penalty for the most vile murderous criminals. That’s the progressive concept of social justice for you.
Let me make a simple proposal to my progressive counterparts. I will change my opinion actively advocate against the death penalty in exchange for ridding the nation of legal abortion.
But there is one catch if keeping the Bill of Rights could be considered such a thing. Sort of a no brainer for those who believe in the rule of law isn’t it?
It’s a fair proposal. No death penalty and no abortion.
Any progressive takers? Didn’t think so.
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Catholic Church and capital punishment
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The teaching of the Catholic Church categorizes capital punishment as a form of “lawful slaying”, a view defended by theological authorities such as Augustine and Thomas Aquinas.[1] Augustine felt that the death penalty was a means of deterring the wicked and protecting the innocent.[2] In the Middle Ages, Thomas Aquinas reaffirmed this position. (See also Aquinas on the death penalty).
More recently, Pope John Paul II appealed for a consensus to end the death penalty on the ground that it was “both cruel and unnecessary.”[3][4]
Kaine is by no means a faithful Catholic, perhaps you should stick to Judaism because here you are clueless. One the Catholic Church is not against the death Penalty It even teaches that the death penalty can be redemptive for the person who is executed, so you are lying. Two the “social justice” doctrine is a concept that was brought in by FAITHLESS “Catholics” who are pushing communist doctrine under a phony name, this is part and parcel with “Liberation theology” which is anti-Catholic, anti-Christian as a matter of fact it is the furthest thing away from Catholicism as you can get. Three Abortion is as wrong as you can get when it comes to morality, without life no civil Rights or any rights exists, it is pure evil. The killing of an innocent cannot be compared to the just putting to death of a murderer, they are two completely different things. There is nothing good righteous or just about some one who is unwilling to save the innocent but will protest, cry, whine, bi**h and moan about a vicious murderer being put to death. Kaine helped the communists in Honduras in the early 1980s, again showing he is by no means Catholic or Christian. Kaine is a Catholic as Nancy Pelosi and Bernie Sanders, they are nowhere near Catholic. Perhaps if the writer had a clue as to what Catholicism or Christianity is really about he could write an article on the subject but it is quite obvious that he has no idea what it is about or what the faith teaches or requires.
…a faithful Catholic. Except for that murdering unborn babies thing. But, Hey…..
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“But he said Catholic Republicans had their own moral inconsistencies when it came to certain policy issues, notably curtailing immigration and budget cuts to social programs that helped the poor.” WRONG! The official teaching of the Catholic Church is that all nations should have controlled borders. Trump’s position is consistent with the official teaching of the Catholic Church.
Archbishop Fulton Sheenuwell. Not all evil is equally malicious, just as all good is not equally sublime.
By this Saintly Archbishop’s definition Tim Kaine can be defined as evil. Of course, by extension, Hillary Clinton is the same. Mr. Trump has a long way to go to come close to these two. A Catholic who practices their Faith has not other option but to vote to limit evil.
When listening to many of our Bishops speak on the matter I am reminded of what St. Athanasius said, who was the first Doctor of the Church and known as the Father of Orthodoxy “The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of Bishops.”
Another quote Fri Archbishop Fulton Sheen:
“Who is going to save our Church? Not our Bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops like bishops and your religious act like religious”
“If abortion is not wrong then nothing is wrong.” – Mother Teresa
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, If any will not work, neither let him eat.
The canard of “helping” the poor has turned into a plain ole wealth redistribution scam – this simple test is NEVER applied to people gaming the system
It is NOT the mandate of the federal government to institute economic welfare programs – that on,igation and right belongs to each individual state.
It’s kind of like saying you’re personally against terrorism, but don’t mind if other people do it.
Abortion is the worst terrorism of our time…1.2 million little souls deprived of the opportunity of life on earth each year in the U.S. 🙁
IF you vote for Killary while she uses a Kaine as crutch to get the faith vote, then you are simply too stupid to understand the basic tenets of the faith much less the incongruent pilasters the DNC’s foundation rests upon which are in direct conflict with the faith.
The author tries to balance his article by saying that Catholics who support Trump are just choosing which Church teaching to ignore. Not so, the Church would prefer that Capitol Punishment be nonexistent, but allows the faithful to decide what is best for their circumstances.
Abortion is intrinsically evil and can never be justified except to save the life of the mother. That is an extremely rare occurrence.
So the narrative that a Catholic can support abortion and still be a faithful Catholic is simular to Catholic supporting the death penalty is completely false.
The non-repentant believer in abortion has excommunicated themselves.
Kaine is not a “faithful” Catholic. He disavows primary elements of both the Christian and Jewish faiths. The admonition against murder, that is, the killing of innocents, is violated every time an abortion is committed, and support of this evil is evil itself. I can’t understand how any actually faithful Christian or Jew can support this man.
And by the way, have a good year!
Interesting, Bonhoeffer gave his life for the resistance and opposing an evil government. He did not “personally oppose” concentration camps and then went along to get along.
Catholic thought says that abortion is a grave sin. However, God knows we all sin in one way or another.
In the other hand some Methodists believe that God wants some women to have abortions. This is the camp that Hillary Clinton belongs to. These positions cannot be reconciled. It would be entertaining to have Kaine try.
the problem isn’t that he’s a catholic, it’s he’s a jesuit.
I’m a Catholic and a USN veteran that had a chance to talk with Senator Kaine as he toured a veterans facility I worked at; he was very genuine, asked great questions about our programs and needs/service gaps – he then got in a plain-Jane mini-van and drove his small team to another event a few hours away. Shortly thereafter he personally followed up on some issues from the on-site discussion to make sure they were resolved or moving that direction. It’s easy to forget that whomever is elected has to 1) get Congressional approval for the vast majority of their administration’s proposed actions, and 2) represent everyone, not themselves and not only people that think like them. I was leaning towards Trump until Kaine was picked to be Clinton’s VP – while still not 100% sure (lesser of two evils argument for the Presidential candidates), Tim Kaine seems to be a reasonable and thoughtful person who deserves my vote.
What is his position on “child rape”?
As a Conservative Catholic, emphasis on Conservative, to me Kaine is NOT a Catholic. He is a CINO (Catholic In Name Only) like every Liberal Catholic. CINOs want to destroy the Catholic religion and turn it into more like Unitarian Universalist.
If we substitute the work “slavery” for “abortion”, would he still have the same argument? Many politicians, prior to the civil war, stated they “personally opposed slavery”, but could never force their beliefs upon slave owners who were voters.
Kaine has, by his own attestations and actions, excommunicated himself from the Catholic Church. This article talks about the executions being against Catholic doctrine, they are not. (Though it would generally be better if they were avoided under most circumstances). For an example on this, take what Jesus said about those who would lead children astray…
“Kaine is a ‘faithful’ Catholic”
Adolph Hitler made that same claim!!!
Disgusting – No he is not a FAITHFUL CATHOLIC.
Just because a Democrat CLAIMS something does not make it true, in most cases it means the exact opposite.
There is a difference between protecting INNOCENT LIFE and allowing the state (Caesar) to enforce their laws and punishments.
Also claiming SOCIAL JUSTICE – claiming it is Christian to violate borders and laws?
2 Thessalonians, chapter 3
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
In fact, when we were with you, we instructed you that if anyone was unwilling to work, neither should that one eat.
7For you know how one must imitate us. For we did not act in a disorderly way among you, 8 nor did we eat food received free from anyone. On the contrary, in toil and drudgery, night and day we worked, so as not to burden any of you.
9 Not that we do not have the right. Rather, we wanted to present ourselves as a model for you, so that you might imitate us.
10In fact, when we were with you, we instructed you that if anyone was unwilling to work, neither should that one eat.
The Catholic faith is not a cafeteria church where you can pick and choose what you’ll follow. It’s no wonder why Kaine is such a political weasel.
Kaine is not a “faithful Catholic”. He is an advocate of Liberation Theology, the very antithesis of Christianity.
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